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Forum:Canon Policy Discussion
Hi everyone, Will94 here. And as a new administrator on Teen Titans Fan Fiction Wiki, I would like to review the 'Canon Policy'. Currently, the policy stands as; : "DC Canon content on this wiki is not allowed to have a dedicated page for it. - Anything that is canon to the DC universe (including Teen Titans) is not allowed to be posted on this wiki because of two reasons: First, there's already a DC wiki, and a Teen Titans wiki we can link to. Second, I'd like not to have any arguments with multiple people using the same canon characters involved in different events. However, you ARE allowed to have canon content WITHIN an original page you created. If your page contains canon content that conflicts with the canon storyline somehow, it must contain a tag at the top of the page. If it does not conflict, then it is not needed. This is a complicated rule so we won't be too harsh about it if you goof up. :P" I know I have messed up with this rule in the past, but for now, let us leave that in the past. There is a way we can 'have canon pages on this wiki, without insuing in arguments about whose fan fiction timeline is correct. I have made a template to help this process, and I explain my proposal below. Now when a user wishes to create a page for a canon character, they name is as such; character name (fiction series). So say I wished to use Argent in my fan fiction, Titans Australia. When I create the page I name it this; Argent (Titans Australia). This way there is no confusion as to who ownes which page. Also to help identify the 'owner' of each page I created a templat which was introduced on many wikis. The Template:Property template. This template adds a 'tag' to the top of each page, with the username filled out in it. You can see an example of its' use here. Also, the current is kind of stupid and has multiple quality issues: #It is ridiculously huge. #This is a "Fan Fiction Wiki", hence, there are supposed to be canon alterations!! I propose the Canon Tag be deleted, and also to use the property template to signify who owns an article. Thanks for reading, please respond below with an increased indent. Regards, [[User:Will94|'Will94]] (Talk - Teru) 09:52, January 19, 2011 (UTC) ---- Spades here. Big reason why I (begrudgingly) created the 'canon' rule in the first place was because, all too often have I seen people bickering about how storylines conflict and crap like that. I don't even like using the canon tag. I have it on my own page you'll even notice. It's so damn ugly. However, the current policy seems to be more of a temporary preemptive solution to a problem we're bound to have sooner or later--especially if this wiki gets the popularity we want it to have. We've also had a lot of problems where people have ported over unaltered content from various series. I remember there used to be someone posting Batman stuff left and right. The latter of those two reasons is the big problem I had with canon content in this wiki at first. As of recently, I've begun to consider alternatives to the policy. I still don't want to see canon content posted on this wiki that is completely unaltered. They already have a bazillion wikis across the web. Go find one that has your character and make a link. HOWEVER, as Will's pages were for instance, it was the same character, sure, but in an alternative universe. One of two things has to happen if we want to alter this rule, however. # We keep the 'canon' tag but dramatically alter its rules and what it says, so it includes only characters/places/things that are canon to the universe it belongs to--but then, depending on whose storyline it is, within the article its self, we have a section dedicated to the history of whatever fan series they are a part of. # We make completely separate pages for every single person who wants to make the slightest edit. (I don't like this alternative.) For instance, in Will's universe for Argent, we have all her basic information, and then a section for "Fan Fiction." A subsection of "Fan Fiction" details what parts of her life have been altered titled "Titans Australia" (assuming that's what you call your series, Will). That section will give the history on what her life in that universe is like. Let's say I used Argent now--even if she's a minor character--and I want to alter Argent's page. Let's say I called this particular fan fiction series "Heroes of New England" where Titans North, Spades Neil, Avro, and so on exist. I'd create my own section in Argent's page in the Fan Fiction section, titled "Heroes of New England" and then I'd write the history behind her character in -that- universe where I'm using her. If I'm uncreative, I could just put my Wiki screen name as the title to that particular section. We'd still keep the canon tag for her page, and we'd also keep it for places like Gotham City, Jump City, and maybe even real-life cities like Boston if multiple people start using conflicting versions it. However, we'd write instead for the canon tag, "Do not alter existing content on this page. Only add and edit your own content." Then someone else could come along and add in their own section to the article. It's a little complex, sure, but this is one thing we can't just ignore or we're going to have chaos. Trust me, I know from experience. The most retarded fights start over these things. Spades : : Hey Spades, could you sign your post next time? Just to make it neater and easier to read. Anyway, I much prefer the idea of multiple pages for one '''character in '''different fanon continuities. Having one page just would not work, because it is so easy to just change someone elses' fanon content, and it would also be very cluttered, and confusing for users who ware not familiar with the policy. : This works very well on Avatar Wiki, having different pages. And those pages don't have canon content on them at all. For example, Teen Titans wise, if I were to create an Argent page, I would not include Argents' history from the canon series, rather have a link at the top reading; :: This article is on Argents' history in the fanon Titans Australia. To read Argents' canon history, click here. : Then following on from the notice is the fanon article detailing Argents' ''non canon history, powers, personality etc. Then also at the top of a page can be the Template:Property tag, I'll make a Property policy page, which will say something like; :: When a page is tagged with this template, other users can only edit the page at the permission of its' owner, or for gramatical purpose. : Then if someone '''does' break this rule, their edit will be undone, and a penalty will be inflicted upon them, depending on the scale of the crime. Of course there will be exceptions for unknowing users, but after one warning, they may be banned for a week. : Also Spades, you may be interested in giving the Conjecture policy a read. It may interest you. [[User:Will94|'Will94']] (Talk - TTFF - Teru) 22:50, January 20, 2011 (UTC) :: Will, I agree with you and Neil. The Canon policy should be relaxed and modified, as you may not know this policy was made after certain editors had a ongoing conflict over Canon material. But I believe that we can further help the wikia by editing it. My opinion, is to allow editors to have separate pages for their canon marked as you suggested, but also within that page add a link to the Teen Titans Wikia or any other Wikia with information about them. A community-wide single page for canon may need a lot of revision by the Admins, and may there be an issue with the editors sharing a page for Story arcs. I believe that is better if Spades has a X canon article, and you another X canon article, separated but equal. Feel free to re-post this in the Forum.[[User:NightBird|''' The Bird that flies at Night']] (Send me a message) 00:33, January 21, 2011 (UTC) (Reposted from User Talk:Will94) :::While in all truth, I am very tired of taking place in any dispute, for fear of further displeasing one user or another...I will say I do very strongly support as much freedom here as possible for any user. And, seriously, our community really has been severely depleted, due to lack of popularity, so... Ralnon (talk) 01:09, January 21, 2011 (UTC) ::::This is not a dispute Ralnon, it is a discussion about the Canon policy, about how we can improve it to better the wiki. All information here is purely constructive, and so if you have nothing constructive to say, say nothing at all. [[User:Will94|'Will94']] (Talk - TTFF - Teru) 01:34, January 21, 2011 (UTC) Nothing constructive? You insisted I come here, so I came. But I do strongly advise you to be more civil than you have been towards me since Neil, without telling me, made you a sysop. It is still my wiki, something I created, and if you cannot get along with others here, please, make your own. All things considered, I'm even having doubts about it remaining open after what has happened here. I never even wanted to involve myself in this, but you demanded that I come, so... Ralnon (talk) 03:15, January 21, 2011 (UTC) >_> Can we get back to the discussion at hand? I'd like not to listen to bickering over something completely unrelated. Debate, fine. Debate is good. Debate promotes thought. Bicker? That just pisses both of you off and then we have problems. Anyway, Will, correct me if I'm mistaken, but are you proposing that the pages created all link to a "disambiguation" page listing every version of the canon content there is? We'll use Raven as an example this time, because I used to know a few Ravens from my roleplay on MySpace... So we type Raven or Rachel Roth or whatever into the search bar. The results bring back a list like the following. I'll just make up some stuff. '''Raven' may refer to: * Tightass Raven, brother to Spades Neil in the Titans North (series) storyline. * Psionic Raven, version of Raven as roleplayed by Psionic on MySpace.com * Ice Queen Raven, older version of Raven from the Titans meet the X-Men fan fiction. * Raven (Eclipse), Raven as portrayed in the Eclipse fan fiction. * Raven (Asylum), Raven as portrayed in the Scarecrow's Asylum fan fiction. * Raven (ShadowGirl66), Raven roleplayed by ShadowGirl66. * Raven Lance, original character, male villain to the Titans Wherever-the-fuck storyline, completely unrelated to canon Raven. Obviously I'm just making crap up for these pages. But you get the idea. The actual page names might come out as follows... /Tightass_Raven (or even /Raven_(Tightass) /Psionic_Raven (or /Raven_(Psionic) /Raven_(Ice Queen) /Raven_(Eclipse) /Raven_(Asylum) /Raven_Lance Make sense? I think that's the only way we'll ever have multiple pages for the same character. By default, we have them use their screen name somewhere in the title, and if not the screen name, then the fan series. They have to prove the fan series exists by linking to it in their sources on the page though. For example, if I made the Tightass Raven page on behalf of my friend who owns the character, I'd have to also put a link to the fan series at the end of the page as one of the sources. I think this is finally starting to come together. --Spades Neil 19:03, January 21, 2011 (UTC) : The disambiguation has been around in Wikia sites for years, so I see no problem using it! I actually like the idea. On another note, what about format? : Should we use * *: (Whatever) Character Name : Or * *: Character Name (Whatever) : I will go with with the first one[[User:NightBird|''' The Bird that flies at Night']] (Send me a message) 19:44, January 21, 2011 (UTC) : YES!!! Exactly! Now we are getting somewhere :D! So at the top of each page of this alternate 'Raven', it will have; :: ''This article is about Tightass Raven, brother to Spades Neil in the Titans North (series) storyline. For other Ravens, click here : So that leads to the fanon page, the disambiguation page, and then no one is confused! I was also thinking that if a user uses a character in more than one fan fiction, but in the same story line, they name the article; :: Raven (Will94) : So then that one Raven applies to all of their story lines. Also I think the second one would make the page title neater. Does that make sense?? [[User:Will94|'Will94']] (Talk - TTFF - Teru) 19:54, January 21, 2011 (UTC) :::Yes, that works brilliantly! It'll be a little hectic what with all the editing, though I'm still an idiot when it comes to use of the wiki's coding. xD Will, you're much better at it than I am. I'm best when it comes to fair mediation between members (and even between admins :P) and article editing--but I really can't do anything that complex. It's part of the reason I made you an admin after all! NightBird, only to stay consistent with other wikis, I highly advise we do it as "Character Name (Character Version)" because it's the way other wikis do it. If we do it backwards, it'll confuse new users. :::At this rate there may be hope for this wiki yet. --Spades Neil 05:13, January 23, 2011 (UTC) ::::Excellent! And what of the canon alterations tag? Delete it? Cause I personally think it is pretty useless. But that is just me. What do you think? 21:14, January 23, 2011 (UTC) I guess that the disambiguation will not only apply to Canon articles, also Fanon. [[User:NightBird|'The Bird that flies at Night']] (Send me a message) 19:11, January 24, 2011 (UTC) :::As soon as the new policy is appropriately and entirely enacted, the 'canon' tag will become obsolete and then we'll delete it. I need to fully understand how the disambiguation pages work myself. Are we going to need to manually edit every page? Or is there some way to do it automatically for us? Like a tag or something? Will, you'd know the answer to this. :::--Spades Neil 20:57, January 24, 2011 (UTC) ::::That comment above NightBird's was mine, but I was using my sister's iPad so I forgot to login :D On disambiguation pages, I am pretty sure that is all a manual thing, unless someone wants to create a bot. I have some contacts on Avatar Wiki that may be able to help me with that if we really want to. ::::I have also searched up on Wikia Help, and they don't have anything on disambiguation, so for now I presume that is all manual. So basically, we will have to monitor the Recent Changes list for canon created pages, then add it to the Dis page ourself. [[User:Will94|'Will94']] (Talk - TTFF - Teru) 09:19, January 26, 2011 (UTC) ^ Yea, I figured. :P Anyway, you guys are free to get started on this whenever you like. Will, you're able to edit the Rules page, so feel free to do so. I'm trying to think of a way to properly explain the new policy, but alas, I have not the time. x_X --Spades Neil 20:44, January 26, 2011 (UTC) : Okay then, I'll get started on the policy page , then edit the Rules and Regulations page. [[User:Will94|'Will94']] (Talk - TTFF - Teru) 21:48, January 26, 2011 (UTC)